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	<title>Comments for Ask the Open Systems Storage guy</title>
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	<description>Questions, Answers, Opinions, and Information</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:08:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Ask a question by Legal Hallucinogens</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/ask-a-question/#comment-793</link>
		<dc:creator>Legal Hallucinogens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 23:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/ask-a-question/#comment-793</guid>
		<description>I had Oracle RAC with ASm running in a RAW configuration on dual 32 bit servers running RedHat 4. I upgraded to dual qla2200 HBAs on each server and they connect through a Brocade 2250 switch to two JBOD disk arrays, a NexStor 18f and a NexStor 8f. I have set up multipath in the multibus configuration and can see the drives as multipath devices in an active-active configuration. I am using OCFS2 for my CRS voting and config disks and that runs fine. When I try to start ASM I can get proper connectivity on the first server that starts up, the second server hands until it eventually errors with a access issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had Oracle RAC with ASm running in a RAW configuration on dual 32 bit servers running RedHat 4. I upgraded to dual qla2200 HBAs on each server and they connect through a Brocade 2250 switch to two JBOD disk arrays, a NexStor 18f and a NexStor 8f. I have set up multipath in the multibus configuration and can see the drives as multipath devices in an active-active configuration. I am using OCFS2 for my CRS voting and config disks and that runs fine. When I try to start ASM I can get proper connectivity on the first server that starts up, the second server hands until it eventually errors with a access issue.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ask a question by Mike Ault</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/ask-a-question/#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Ault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/ask-a-question/#comment-784</guid>
		<description>I had Oracle RAC with ASm running in a RAW configuration on dual 32 bit servers running RedHat 4. I upgraded to dual qla2200 HBAs on each server and they connect through a Brocade 2250 switch to two JBOD disk arrays, a NexStor 18f and a NexStor 8f. I have set up multipath in the multibus configuration and can see the drives as multipath devices in an active-active configuration. I am using OCFS2 for my CRS voting and config disks and that runs fine. When I try to start ASM I can get proper connectivity on the first server that starts up, the second server hands until it eventually errors with a access issue. 

I have verified all permissions required are set and can see the disks on both sides using the oracleasm utility. It appears DM is only allowing a single host to access the ASM disks at one time, so when node A starts up and acquires the ASM disks when the ASM instance starts, node B is left hung, visa versa if Node B starts first.

I was told it may be a SCSI reservation issue, but can&#039;t seem to find any information on this. I know people are using this type of configuration to RAID controllers but is the JBOD causing issues? How to get both instances seeing the ASM disks?

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had Oracle RAC with ASm running in a RAW configuration on dual 32 bit servers running RedHat 4. I upgraded to dual qla2200 HBAs on each server and they connect through a Brocade 2250 switch to two JBOD disk arrays, a NexStor 18f and a NexStor 8f. I have set up multipath in the multibus configuration and can see the drives as multipath devices in an active-active configuration. I am using OCFS2 for my CRS voting and config disks and that runs fine. When I try to start ASM I can get proper connectivity on the first server that starts up, the second server hands until it eventually errors with a access issue. </p>
<p>I have verified all permissions required are set and can see the disks on both sides using the oracleasm utility. It appears DM is only allowing a single host to access the ASM disks at one time, so when node A starts up and acquires the ASM disks when the ASM instance starts, node B is left hung, visa versa if Node B starts first.</p>
<p>I was told it may be a SCSI reservation issue, but can&#8217;t seem to find any information on this. I know people are using this type of configuration to RAID controllers but is the JBOD causing issues? How to get both instances seeing the ASM disks?</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Linux sharing a JBOD- paul&#8217;s question by Open Systems Guy</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/linux-sharing-a-jbod/#comment-779</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Systems Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 15:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-779</guid>
		<description>Ah! I understand now :)

It sounds like both servers are trying to be a primary disk owner on the same disks, and this will definitely cause errors. Unfortunately, I don&#039;t know IBRIX at all, and I have no experience clustering servers. It looks like what you need to do is configure your software so it knows both nodes are going to be accessing the same disks, and makes sure they don&#039;t step on each others feet. IBRIX should have some sort of guide for this. They may also need to know how you&#039;re doing your zoning on the switch.

Once you have that set up, if you want to try to increase your availability you could look into multipathing, but you should ensure that you use a setup that&#039;s been tested by IBRIX. They might have specific needs for multipath drivers or the like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah! I understand now :)</p>
<p>It sounds like both servers are trying to be a primary disk owner on the same disks, and this will definitely cause errors. Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t know IBRIX at all, and I have no experience clustering servers. It looks like what you need to do is configure your software so it knows both nodes are going to be accessing the same disks, and makes sure they don&#8217;t step on each others feet. IBRIX should have some sort of guide for this. They may also need to know how you&#8217;re doing your zoning on the switch.</p>
<p>Once you have that set up, if you want to try to increase your availability you could look into multipathing, but you should ensure that you use a setup that&#8217;s been tested by IBRIX. They might have specific needs for multipath drivers or the like.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Linux sharing a JBOD- paul&#8217;s question by Paul</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/linux-sharing-a-jbod/#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 20:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/?p=20#comment-778</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the folow-up. What I am trying to do is simply fail-over a server. I&#039;m using IBRIX clustering software - however when I try to do discovery of physical volumes all hell breaks loose with disk I/O errors at the server level.

Second, I misinformed. I am using a SAS switch with zoning control to control access to the disk enclosures and disks from the two servers.

Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the folow-up. What I am trying to do is simply fail-over a server. I&#8217;m using IBRIX clustering software &#8211; however when I try to do discovery of physical volumes all hell breaks loose with disk I/O errors at the server level.</p>
<p>Second, I misinformed. I am using a SAS switch with zoning control to control access to the disk enclosures and disks from the two servers.</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ask a question by Paul</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/ask-a-question/#comment-777</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/ask-a-question/#comment-777</guid>
		<description>Question about multiple servers accessing same disks through a SAN switch

I&#039;m trying to set up a Linux system for server failover where two servers (with SAS HBA) are accessing the same set of disks (jbod) through a SAN switch. First - will this work? If so, what software do I need to run on the servers to keep the two servers from stepping on each other? Do I need multipath support?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question about multiple servers accessing same disks through a SAN switch</p>
<p>I&#8217;m trying to set up a Linux system for server failover where two servers (with SAS HBA) are accessing the same set of disks (jbod) through a SAN switch. First &#8211; will this work? If so, what software do I need to run on the servers to keep the two servers from stepping on each other? Do I need multipath support?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Off topic: Gizmodo acts stupidly at CES by Storagezilla</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/stupid-gizmodo/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>Storagezilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:50:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/stupid-gizmodo/#comment-694</guid>
		<description>Morons.
If they were that bored they should have left instead of harassing booth staff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morons.<br />
If they were that bored they should have left instead of harassing booth staff.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Barry&#8217;s question by Open Systems Guy</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/barrys-question/#comment-661</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Systems Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/barrys-question/#comment-661</guid>
		<description>Asynch replication usually means that the IT staff don&#039;t mind a farther recovery point, in my experience. That said, if they are using asynch with a short RPO, then you&#039;re absolutely correct. The remote target must be able to go as fast as the source or else they will have to choose between slowing the primary storage or having their recovery point fall behind their objective.

Typically, all replication setups include a periodic consistency set- the synchronous or asynchronous mirror of an open database is useless if the data and log won&#039;t agree to a consistency point. Files are less of an issue, but email and database applications are very sensitive to this. Typically, scripting will be used to halt application writes while the buffer is flushed to disk locally and remotely, and then a consistent, bootable flash copy is created.

As for flash copy, different techniques have different algorithms. Assuming we&#039;re talking about the standard &quot;bundle of pointers&quot; implementation, generally people put the flash data (the pointers) on the same type of media as the main data. It is so interconnected with real data that most people just feel uneasy if they mix media. I have seen SATA used for this though, and the performance hit on a speedy FC LUN was not as bad as one would expect- a huge portion of IOs/s for most workloads is from reading, and the SATA only had to work on the writes, which were acknowledged to the host and put into cache before the real disk even saw them.

Overall, I agree that SATA is not for everything, but I always believe careful math should be done before deciding where to draw the primary/secondary media tier line. Every shop will have their own priorities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asynch replication usually means that the IT staff don&#8217;t mind a farther recovery point, in my experience. That said, if they are using asynch with a short RPO, then you&#8217;re absolutely correct. The remote target must be able to go as fast as the source or else they will have to choose between slowing the primary storage or having their recovery point fall behind their objective.</p>
<p>Typically, all replication setups include a periodic consistency set- the synchronous or asynchronous mirror of an open database is useless if the data and log won&#8217;t agree to a consistency point. Files are less of an issue, but email and database applications are very sensitive to this. Typically, scripting will be used to halt application writes while the buffer is flushed to disk locally and remotely, and then a consistent, bootable flash copy is created.</p>
<p>As for flash copy, different techniques have different algorithms. Assuming we&#8217;re talking about the standard &#8220;bundle of pointers&#8221; implementation, generally people put the flash data (the pointers) on the same type of media as the main data. It is so interconnected with real data that most people just feel uneasy if they mix media. I have seen SATA used for this though, and the performance hit on a speedy FC LUN was not as bad as one would expect- a huge portion of IOs/s for most workloads is from reading, and the SATA only had to work on the writes, which were acknowledged to the host and put into cache before the real disk even saw them.</p>
<p>Overall, I agree that SATA is not for everything, but I always believe careful math should be done before deciding where to draw the primary/secondary media tier line. Every shop will have their own priorities.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Barry&#8217;s question by orbist</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/barrys-question/#comment-660</link>
		<dc:creator>orbist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/barrys-question/#comment-660</guid>
		<description>OSG, thanks for the reply. You&#039;ve covered the essence of what I was asking, On the whole I would agree with your thinking however I disagree that async mirror is particularly different to sync mirror.

This is especially true when the async mirror has been implemented with a small RPO (Recovery Point Objective) then you are going to try and keep the secondary site as close in time to the primary as possible. With the delays over the long distance link, this means probably an RPO of a short number of seconds (less than a minute) (For example this is the RPO SVC implements) Therefore with a finite amount of local buffer space, if your secondary is substantially lower random performance than your primary, then I&#039;d say you were asking for trouble. 

This is a common misconception about asynchronous mirroring (with a low RPO). SATA would be fine if you have enough random IO/s performance at the secondary (so as to not slow down you primary) In the case of a 15K RPM primary site, this would mean something in the order of 2.5 to 3 times the number of spindles at the secondary site.

Your points about sequential (archive) performance, or backup to SATA are valid. And I&#039;d agree.

My CDP question was really aimed at using FlashCopy (point in time copy) where again if you are using SATA as the target volumes, great care is needed to ensure your IO/s rate at the source disk is not going to be hampered by the rate at which the random copies can be made at the target disk. While most good implementations will have a cache layer above the flash copy (i.e. any writes to the source are hidden from the subsequent read and clone operations) However under some circumstances (for example performing a complete copy of the source to target) and continuing random I/O to the source, things can quickly overload the SATA target volume.

My comments come from experience in the field, where the general &#039;assumption&#039; is that SATA is fine under these circumstances. All I&#039;m saying is that for a standard RAID-5 /6 SATA controller you need to do the maths carefully before deciding that your async copy or flash copy targets can live on a stock SATA RAID-5/6 (of course the XIV distributed RAID model starts to change this substantially)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OSG, thanks for the reply. You&#8217;ve covered the essence of what I was asking, On the whole I would agree with your thinking however I disagree that async mirror is particularly different to sync mirror.</p>
<p>This is especially true when the async mirror has been implemented with a small RPO (Recovery Point Objective) then you are going to try and keep the secondary site as close in time to the primary as possible. With the delays over the long distance link, this means probably an RPO of a short number of seconds (less than a minute) (For example this is the RPO SVC implements) Therefore with a finite amount of local buffer space, if your secondary is substantially lower random performance than your primary, then I&#8217;d say you were asking for trouble. </p>
<p>This is a common misconception about asynchronous mirroring (with a low RPO). SATA would be fine if you have enough random IO/s performance at the secondary (so as to not slow down you primary) In the case of a 15K RPM primary site, this would mean something in the order of 2.5 to 3 times the number of spindles at the secondary site.</p>
<p>Your points about sequential (archive) performance, or backup to SATA are valid. And I&#8217;d agree.</p>
<p>My CDP question was really aimed at using FlashCopy (point in time copy) where again if you are using SATA as the target volumes, great care is needed to ensure your IO/s rate at the source disk is not going to be hampered by the rate at which the random copies can be made at the target disk. While most good implementations will have a cache layer above the flash copy (i.e. any writes to the source are hidden from the subsequent read and clone operations) However under some circumstances (for example performing a complete copy of the source to target) and continuing random I/O to the source, things can quickly overload the SATA target volume.</p>
<p>My comments come from experience in the field, where the general &#8216;assumption&#8217; is that SATA is fine under these circumstances. All I&#8217;m saying is that for a standard RAID-5 /6 SATA controller you need to do the maths carefully before deciding that your async copy or flash copy targets can live on a stock SATA RAID-5/6 (of course the XIV distributed RAID model starts to change this substantially)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gene&#8217;s question by Tony Pearson</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/genes-question/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 20:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/genes-question/#comment-252</guid>
		<description>A multipath driver is needed if you have multiple paths to the same LUN.  This can happen even in single-port FBAs if they are connected to a switch, which in turn has two or more cables to the disk array.  If you are going to access two disk arrays from a single port HBA, then you will need a switch, and you might as well have two cables from the switch to each disk array for load balance, and that is where a multipath driver comes in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A multipath driver is needed if you have multiple paths to the same LUN.  This can happen even in single-port FBAs if they are connected to a switch, which in turn has two or more cables to the disk array.  If you are going to access two disk arrays from a single port HBA, then you will need a switch, and you might as well have two cables from the switch to each disk array for load balance, and that is where a multipath driver comes in.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Gene&#8217;s question by Open Systems Guy</title>
		<link>http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/genes-question/#comment-238</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Systems Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://opensystemsguy.wordpress.com/2007/11/21/genes-question/#comment-238</guid>
		<description>Great! Thanks for the help :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great! Thanks for the help :)</p>
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